Skynyrd and the Confederate flag
July 25, 2010 8:42:05 AM UTC Post #1

I kinda like the use actually - better to think of really good rock'n'roll than really bad racism - recontextualization, ya know?

For any of y'all, does the Confederacy represent anything more than being the source of the flag that has in part been associated with Skynyrd?

I never was super-fast to rush to the bad connotations; I understand the flag and the band are form the same region and all...

As someone from outside the South, I'm honestly curious. :)


-
Thanks for the tip, Paul - Skynyrd is one of the most underrated classic rock bands. We in Skynyrd Nation know better.

What rock lost in 10/77 was no less than what it lost in 2/59.

“Some people said he was useless – them people are the fools."

July 25, 2010 3:34:30 PM UTC Post #1

@LynSkyn1981: LMFRIGGINAO!!!!......................................................................

LONG LIVE SKYNYRD NATION!!!














July 25, 2010 3:41:04 PM UTC Post #2

The flag of conferderacy is not a racist flag the flag itself was design as representive of the cross the stars are 13 the tribes of Isreal the red is for the blood of Jesus....so dont pay any mind of what and yes Skynyrd is not a racist band!!!!

train roll on im many miles from my home i just need to ride my blues away

July 25, 2010 4:58:01 PM UTC Post #3

The real question is how did ls dagwood get to join the board in 1969? :-) I like it!

July 25, 2010 5:06:09 PM UTC Post #4

@LynSkyn1981: i totally agree lol. reminds me of the famous saying can't we all just get along lol. keep rockin' skyn. peace and light, gina

regina taylor

sothrngrl46@aol.com
July 25, 2010 7:14:29 PM UTC Post #5

=ls-dagwoodblues said:The flag of conferderacy is not a racist flag the flag itself was design as representive of the cross the stars are 13 the tribes of Isreal the red is for the blood of Jesus....so dont pay any mind of what and yes Skynyrd is not a racist band!!!!
damn I was in 6th grade I heard there was these high dudes starting a band they were gonna name after there high coach or something lol

train roll on im many miles from my home i just need to ride my blues away

July 25, 2010 7:14:57 PM UTC Post #6

'81 I like your youtube channel!

When are you going to write that book?

S

July 25, 2010 8:17:18 PM UTC Post #7

Why iz youre pic only partial skippy King conzel are U a Obama butty lickers oh mightE inz hiding or one of KNOwledge and Lynyrd Skynyrd Hope for changeN that aint Mie America contaversity ??
R yoU comPutinG from moms flippy zippy stEp doWnshElterd bAseMentz ??
sowth ssawouth nort nowerth fishing fish yum E
showerlunch shore lunch me hungry shurelunch weRe aLL drunk stoned hip E SlobS I be oNe scruffE f5346cked up out of me brain wasted frum shurlunch gone goOfy
zip da dee doo da zip da dee ayyyy my oh my what a wundeerfull day im a realz lifer Im a smoKing gunz
JOn Waynes wantEd to B likE me number 1
and dont ya try Smashing Me cooKie therE king alley wondeR aboots the FlAg nanna
i gotS me I on usE
REBAlls flag eww YEa i likES thAt flAG!!!
REballS FlaG dunt Let That FlaG touZCh de Dirt grouNd sCRuffy Me o mie oh

Breaking news Now here this attention attention there is a rebel flag on lynyrd skynyrd stage all personel man youre battle stations take cover loCk N loAd youre canz of beerz
i repeat all personel take cover immediatly Its been Identifieds and CONfirmed
Hey
im blacker than a ace of spades i love that flag.....

im a jooos jew and i love that flag
im a commie from china also part russian and italian with a pinch of finish and i love that flag
im a pakistanny 3 quarters palastinian joo lebonese jordanian jew and i got that flag hanging in my room
im a red blooded indian from montana and i dig that flag
im a taxi driver from minnysoda and i have sex at the park wth my best friends wife on the grass with that flag
im a peanuts popcorn pop beer consesion baseball game dude that goes up n dpown yeling peanuts popcorn hear for sale and i got a t shirt of that flag
im a astronaut from nasa and i got that flag tattooed on my back shoulder becouse i thought it was kool
im a luthern preacher and i kick catholic priest asses for fun at catholic church festivals and i got that tattoo on me big muscle with a cross over it
im a nursinghome nurse and wanted to get wild one week and i was drunk and feeeling like being rebelious one night so i wanted to go skinny dipping wth a strange man but first i thought it would be kool to get a rebel tatto so i got a rebel confederate tattoo so i love that flag
im from mississipi and that flag represents to me my heritage my southern pride my way of upbringing just like my great grandpa it makes me happy
Well i fought in the war with a southern battalion and i dig that flag becouse it represented the battalion i was with
I like seeing trucks go down the road with that flag on there grills it means there from the south
I was like looking up at the clouds one day and i saw that flag appear in the shape of clouds and it i think was a sign and i heard a lynyrd skynyrd song playing in the background and also they said paul mccartney wasnt wearing shoes or socks?can u dig it o might E Ali KIng?
People have spoken AouT the FlaG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank You Lynyrd Skynyrd for the music!

http://fansofskynyrd.proboards.com/index.cgi
July 29, 2010 11:29:28 PM UTC Post #8

Well Nation......I'm gonna post this again please read .It had to be done in TWO parts,it's too long...soooo....
This will be my Third try at getting a Confederate Flag post on here....whew Gerbil ate the first-Two....I have contacted some of my operatives concerning such a serious matter as the Confederate Flag....and using my talents and such... I perused the internet using my information gathering system with such code names as..."GOOGLE"...."YAHOO Search"...ASK...and " WIKI"..to name just a few of my sources...though the names could have been changed to protect the innocent they weren't...Whoa....So FRYNYDS and Nation members...put on yer favorite SKYNYRD songs or what have ya....grab a cold one....or an ICED TEA....fill yer pipe...with only the best of course...and let the smoke fill the air...
As I give my second attempt to purvey some knowledge...give a few tasty tidbits of southern lore and overall seek to enlighten and encourage the learning and understanding of the " Confederate Flag"..ps I'm 50% southern..if ur wondering

The First site gives a good account of alot of information,along with references to the BIBLE's Accounts regarding flags/banners though no direct link can be said to be found for GOD/Bible to have any ulterior meaning involved with the Confederate flag..it does give good accounts of the Bible and why Men have choosen to carry Banners/Flags.
1ST http://www.confederatewave.org/wave/2005/confederate-flag.php
2ND More than one Confederate flag....http://www.hpa.org/edu/csaflags.htm
3RD http://12angrymen.wordpress.com/2007/05/01/the-true-meaning-of-the-confederate-flag/......Should you care to add to the 391 posts there concerning the flag.Alot of personal posts from americans about this subject.
4TH http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America
Special note taken from the page/Article...Displaying the flag
The display of the Confederate flag remains a highly controversial and emotional topic, generally because of disagreement over its symbolism.
Some groups use the Southern Cross as one of the symbols associated with their organizations, including racist groups such as the Neo-Nazis and the Ku Klux Klan.[21] The flag is also sometimes used by separatist organizations such as the Aryan Nations. The Aryan Nation also uses the U.S. flag as well as the Christian flag displayed in some Protestant churches.
Supporters of the flag view it as a symbol of southern heritage and the independence of the distinct cultural tradition of the South from Northern government. Due to its ban in some schools and universities that have viewed it as a racist symbol, display of the flag has, in these contexts, also been considered an exercise of free speech.[22]
Some southerners claim that they see the flag as merely a symbol of southern culture without any political or racial connotation.[citation needed] An example of this would be the Bocephus Rebel Flag often sold at concerts performed by country music star Hank Williams, Jr or Kevin Fowler, heavy metal band Pantera, and southern rock band "Lynyrd Skynyrd". For some, the flag represents only a past era of southern sovereignty.[23] Some historical societies such as the Sons of Confederate Veterans and the United Daughters of the Confederacy also use the flag as part of their symbols. Some rockabilly fans hold the Confederate flag as their emblem as well.[24] The flag is a regular cultural meme, often appearing in association with a character intended to represent a stereotypical Southerner.
As a result of these varying perceptions, there have been a number of political controversies surrounding the use of the Confederate flag in Southern state flags, at sporting events, at Southern universities, and on public buildings. According to Civil War historian and native Southerner Shelby Foote, the flag traditionally represented the South's resistance to Northern political dominance; it became racially charged during the Civil Rights Movement of the 1950s and 1960s, when fighting against desegregation suddenly became the focal point of that resistance.
Symbols of the Confederacy remain a contentious issue across the United States and have been debated vigorously in many Southern state legislatures over their civic placement since the 1990s

July 29, 2010 11:32:19 PM UTC Post #9

PART Two.

5TH http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/us-csah.html Very Informative site I copied what below from that page.
The winning design was made by Nicola Marschall of Alabama, and was consciously based on the flag of the United States. Called the "Stars and Bars", the Confederate First National flag featured red, white and red horizontal bars and a blue canton with the number of seceded states represented by white stars. Adopted by the Congress on March 4, 1861, the first example was hoisted over the capitol dome in Montgomery, Alabama.
Now that the Confederacy had a flag, many military units on both regimental and company levels, quickly adopted it for use as a battle flag. Using this pattern, the earliest battles of the war, like Rich Mountain, Bethel, Scary Creek, Phillipi and finally First Manassas would be fought. Confederate troops, in many cases, also still used state flags as well as their special company level colors. With the smoke of battle often obscuring the field this made identification between friend and foe very difficult. In some cases the Stars and Bars so resembled the U.S. flag that troops fired on friendly units killing and wounding fellow soldiers.
As such, Confederate army and corps level officers all over the South began thinking about creating distinctive battle flags that were completely different from those of the Union Army, which would help make unit identification a lot easier. The first of these - and the most famous - was created in September, 1861 in Virginia.
Gathering at the headquarters of the Army of the Potomac (later renamed the Army of Northern Virginia) were generals Joseph Johnston, Pierre Beauregard, Gustavus Smith and Congressman William Miles, then an aide on Beauregard's staff. The conversations turned around the idea of creating a special "battle flag", to be used, in the words of Gen. Beauregard, "only in battle" for their army. Miles offered the design with the St. Andrews cross he had submitted for consideration as a national flag. The competition was a design from Louisiana with a St. George's cross (horizontal/vertical). With the number of states that had seceded now reaching eleven (and with Confederate recognition of Missouri as well), 12 stars were now available for use on a flag. Thus, it looked a lot better than it had in February when only seven stars were added. Miles design was adopted by the council. One source states that Gen Beauregard at first suggested the colors be a blue field with a red cross, but Miles countered that this was contrary to the laws of heraldry.
At a meeting in late August or early September, 1861, army quartermaster William L. Cabell found himself in Gen. Beaurgard's office along with Gen. Johnston discussing the flag. According to his account in the Southern Historical Society Papers, Cabell states that, "Gen. Johnston's flag was in the shape of an ellipse...Gen. Beauregard's was rectangular." His account is geometrically flawed and he probably meant that the flags were rectangular and square respectively. Johnston's letter to Beauregard in 1872 states, "All of them were oblong. I selected the one you offered but changed the shape to square...," and in his own narrative of 1874, "I modified it only by making the shape square instead of oblong..." Gen. Johnston's alteration in the shape probably came at Cabell's behest since making it in a square would save scarce silk as well as ease manufacture. Beauregard suggested that a color exterior border be added for decorative reasons, but this also served to thicken the outer edges of the flags and prevent fraying. The flag was supposed to come in three sizes - 48 inches square for infantry units, 36 inches square for artillery units and 30 inches square for cavalry - but as the war progressed this was not always followed. In fact no artillery sized silk flags have been discovered, so it seems the plan may not have been followed when it came to making the flags.
The design having been approved, three prototype flags were made by Constance, Hetty and Jennie Cary, ladies of high society in Richmond. These were made from red silk for the fields and blue silk for the crosses. Constance, writing after the war, stated that finding suitable material was difficult and that a lining had to be sewn to one of the flags for strength. The story of using their dresses is just a myth. The exterior borders were sewn on fringe and the stars were painted on by a male friend. The flags were then presented to Generals Earl Van Dorn, Joseph Johnston and Pierre Beauregard respectively beginning in October and ending in December when Beauregard received his banner.
The generals ordered 120 silk battle flags for issue to the army. Quartermaster Colin M. Selph bought the entire silk supply of Richmond for making the flags (and the only red-like colors available in bulk were either pink or rose, hence these flags being of lighter shades). The flag making was contracted to some Richmond sewing circles. In lieu of gold fringe a silk yellow border was used instead as well as a blue hoist sleeve for the flag pole.
Starting in late November, 1861, the new battle flags were then presented to the Confederate units at Centreville and into December for other units in nearby parts of Northern Virginia. The flags were presented to each regiment by Gens. Beauregard and Johnston, as well as other army officers, in elaborate parade ground affairs. The Richmond Whig newspaper article of December 2, 1861, tells of the presentation at Centreville on November 28:
"The exercises were opened by Adjutant General Jordan, who, in a brief but eloquent address, charged the men to preserve from dishonor the flags committed to their keeping. The officers then dismounted and the colonels of the different regiments coming forward to the center, Gen. Beauregard, in a few remarks, presented each with a banner, and was eloquently responded to. The regiments then came to 'present', and received their flags with deafening cheers."
So was issued the first of the battle flags for what would become the famous Army of Northern Virginia. Despite the creation of this (and other) battle flags, the First National flag would not fall from use in battle. Examples of it being used for the rest of the war by Confederate units, including Lee's army, are numerous.
By the Spring of 1862, battle damage and weather exposure had worn out many of the silk battle flags received in late 1861. With silk now becoming very hard for the blockaded Confederacy to supply in bulk, another flag making material was sought. One of the primary concerns was for a cloth of greater durability. As such, a dress material of a tightly woven cotton/wool mix was used for the next issue of ANV style battle flags.
This new issue was very limited, being received by only three brigades; those of Gens. Arnold Elzey, George Steuart and John Bell Hood. Still having only 12 stars on the cross (despite Confederate recognition in December, 1861 of Kentucky), these flags were crudely made and lacked the edging along the sides of the cross. The dyes used were so poor that the blue cross soon faded to almost tan. In size, these were the smallest of the ANV flags issued, only averaging 42 inches square. Provenance for the flag of the 31st Virginia Infantry, of this pattern (United Daughters of the Confederacy Headquarters, Richmond, Virginia), states that that flag was made by a group of patriotic ladies using materials supplied by the army quartermasters. This was probably the case for the others of this issue.
These limited replacement flags were first issued starting in April, 1862 and continuing into May. Lieutenant James Lemon, of the 18th Georgia Infantry (who received their flag on or about May 7th) wrote upon his unit receiving their cotton flag, "It is a beautiful crimson flag with blue bars and 12 stars."
While the cotton replacement flags were being issued, the first of the governmental depot issues was taking shape. The Richmond Clothing Depot had been established in late 1861 for the manufacture of uniforms, shoes, accouterments and flags for the troops of the now named Army of Northern Virginia (as well as the Department of North Carolina later on). By May, 1862 the depot was making flags from wool bunting captured initially from the former Federal navy yard near Norfolk, Virginia, and supplemented for the rest of the war by supplies brought through the blockade from Great Britain, where the bunting was made. A more durable material, this was the cloth used for the rest of the war to make flags for the ANV.
Flags historian Howard Madaus has determined that there would be seven wool bunting issues during the course of the war. The first of these were manufactured by the depot in May, 1862, according to depot records in the National Archives. These flags featured 13 stars for the first time and substituted orange wool for the borders. The blue crosses were 8 inches wide and featured white cotton stars that were only 3 inches across. These were set on red fields that were 48 inches square for infantry flags. The first examples of these new battle flags were issued in June to troops of Gen. James Longstreet's Right Wing.
Please go to that page alot more good info there...!!!!!
6Th http://www.sonofthesouth.net/leefoundation/Confederate_Flag.htm Good site interesting reads....
7TH The most Controvesial...it's in my humble opinion, goes wrong when people in power use that power to persuade people to think and believe their views are whats right for them and slanderously creates legislation thats not as FACT based as it needs to be and tries by majority use to demean the very exisitence of the Confederate Flag and what it's Heritage actually is,what it means to many..not just " HATE Groups".For this bill to pass is sad..." an enduring symbol of defiance"....your right I'll never giveup my Rights,my liberties or my Freedoms to a government elite or socio populist movement that seeks to remove GOD and GUNS from Americans, our culture,our History and our NATION..!!!!!
http://urj.org/socialaction/aboutus/reso/?syspage=article&item_id=1863&printable=1

July 29, 2010 11:39:36 PM UTC Post #10

5TH http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/us-csah.html Very Informative site I copied what below from that page.
The winning design was made by Nicola Marschall of Alabama, and was consciously based on the flag of the United States. Called the "Stars and Bars", the Confederate First National flag featured red, white and red horizontal bars and a blue canton with the number of seceded states represented by white stars. Adopted by the Congress on March 4, 1861, the first example was hoisted over the capitol dome in Montgomery, Alabama.
Now that the Confederacy had a flag, many military units on both regimental and company levels, quickly adopted it for use as a battle flag. Using this pattern, the earliest battles of the war, like Rich Mountain, Bethel, Scary Creek, Phillipi and finally First Manassas would be fought. Confederate troops, in many cases, also still used state flags as well as their special company level colors. With the smoke of battle often obscuring the field this made identification between friend and foe very difficult. In some cases the Stars and Bars so resembled the U.S. flag that troops fired on friendly units killing and wounding fellow soldiers.
As such, Confederate army and corps level officers all over the South began thinking about creating distinctive battle flags that were completely different from those of the Union Army, which would help make unit identification a lot easier. The first of these - and the most famous - was created in September, 1861 in Virginia.
Gathering at the headquarters of the Army of the Potomac (later renamed the Army of Northern Virginia) were generals Joseph Johnston, Pierre Beauregard, Gustavus Smith and Congressman William Miles, then an aide on Beauregard's staff. The conversations turned around the idea of creating a special "battle flag", to be used, in the words of Gen. Beauregard, "only in battle" for their army. Miles offered the design with the St. Andrews cross he had submitted for consideration as a national flag. The competition was a design from Louisiana with a St. George's cross (horizontal/vertical). With the number of states that had seceded now reaching eleven (and with Confederate recognition of Missouri as well), 12 stars were now available for use on a flag. Thus, it looked a lot better than it had in February when only seven stars were added. Miles design was adopted by the council. One source states that Gen Beauregard at first suggested the colors be a blue field with a red cross, but Miles countered that this was contrary to the laws of heraldry.
At a meeting in late August or early September, 1861, army quartermaster William L. Cabell found himself in Gen. Beaurgard's office along with Gen. Johnston discussing the flag. According to his account in the Southern Historical Society Papers, Cabell states that, "Gen. Johnston's flag was in the shape of an ellipse...Gen. Beauregard's was rectangular." His account is geometrically flawed and he probably meant that the flags were rectangular and square respectively. Johnston's letter to Beauregard in 1872 states, "All of them were oblong. I selected the one you offered but changed the shape to square...," and in his own narrative of 1874, "I modified it only by making the shape square instead of oblong..." Gen. Johnston's alteration in the shape probably came at Cabell's behest since making it in a square would save scarce silk as well as ease manufacture. Beauregard suggested that a color exterior border be added for decorative reasons, but this also served to thicken the outer edges of the flags and prevent fraying. The flag was supposed to come in three sizes - 48 inches square for infantry units, 36 inches square for artillery units and 30 inches square for cavalry - but as the war progressed this was not always followed. In fact no artillery sized silk flags have been discovered, so it seems the plan may not have been followed when it came to making the flags.
The design having been approved, three prototype flags were made by Constance, Hetty and Jennie Cary, ladies of high society in Richmond. These were made from red silk for the fields and blue silk for the crosses. Constance, writing after the war, stated that finding suitable material was difficult and that a lining had to be sewn to one of the flags for strength. The story of using their dresses is just a myth. The exterior borders were sewn on fringe and the stars were painted on by a male friend. The flags were then presented to Generals Earl Van Dorn, Joseph Johnston and Pierre Beauregard respectively beginning in October and ending in December when Beauregard received his banner.
The generals ordered 120 silk battle flags for issue to the army. Quartermaster Colin M. Selph bought the entire silk supply of Richmond for making the flags (and the only red-like colors available in bulk were either pink or rose, hence these flags being of lighter shades). The flag making was contracted to some Richmond sewing circles. In lieu of gold fringe a silk yellow border was used instead as well as a blue hoist sleeve for the flag pole.
Starting in late November, 1861, the new battle flags were then presented to the Confederate units at Centreville and into December for other units in nearby parts of Northern Virginia. The flags were presented to each regiment by Gens. Beauregard and Johnston, as well as other army officers, in elaborate parade ground affairs. The Richmond Whig newspaper article of December 2, 1861, tells of the presentation at Centreville on November 28:
"The exercises were opened by Adjutant General Jordan, who, in a brief but eloquent address, charged the men to preserve from dishonor the flags committed to their keeping. The officers then dismounted and the colonels of the different regiments coming forward to the center, Gen. Beauregard, in a few remarks, presented each with a banner, and was eloquently responded to. The regiments then came to 'present', and received their flags with deafening cheers."
So was issued the first of the battle flags for what would become the famous Army of Northern Virginia. Despite the creation of this (and other) battle flags, the First National flag would not fall from use in battle. Examples of it being used for the rest of the war by Confederate units, including Lee's army, are numerous.
By the Spring of 1862, battle damage and weather exposure had worn out many of the silk battle flags received in late 1861. With silk now becoming very hard for the blockaded Confederacy to supply in bulk, another flag making material was sought. One of the primary concerns was for a cloth of greater durability. As such, a dress material of a tightly woven cotton/wool mix was used for the next issue of ANV style battle flags.
This new issue was very limited, being received by only three brigades; those of Gens. Arnold Elzey, George Steuart and John Bell Hood. Still having only 12 stars on the cross (despite Confederate recognition in December, 1861 of Kentucky), these flags were crudely made and lacked the edging along the sides of the cross. The dyes used were so poor that the blue cross soon faded to almost tan. In size, these were the smallest of the ANV flags issued, only averaging 42 inches square. Provenance for the flag of the 31st Virginia Infantry, of this pattern (United Daughters of the Confederacy Headquarters, Richmond, Virginia), states that that flag was made by a group of patriotic ladies using materials supplied by the army quartermasters. This was probably the case for the others of this issue.
These limited replacement flags were first issued starting in April, 1862 and continuing into May. Lieutenant James Lemon, of the 18th Georgia Infantry (who received their flag on or about May 7th) wrote upon his unit receiving their cotton flag, "It is a beautiful crimson flag with blue bars and 12 stars."
While the cotton replacement flags were being issued, the first of the governmental depot issues was taking shape. The Richmond Clothing Depot had been established in late 1861 for the manufacture of uniforms, shoes, accouterments and flags for the troops of the now named Army of Northern Virginia (as well as the Department of North Carolina later on). By May, 1862 the depot was making flags from wool bunting captured initially from the former Federal navy yard near Norfolk, Virginia, and supplemented for the rest of the war by supplies brought through the blockade from Great Britain, where the bunting was made. A more durable material, this was the cloth used for the rest of the war to make flags for the ANV.
Flags historian Howard Madaus has determined that there would be seven wool bunting issues during the course of the war. The first of these were manufactured by the depot in May, 1862, according to depot records in the National Archives. These flags featured 13 stars for the first time and substituted orange wool for the borders. The blue crosses were 8 inches wide and featured white cotton stars that were only 3 inches across. These were set on red fields that were 48 inches square for infantry flags. The first examples of these new battle flags were issued in June to troops of Gen. James Longstreet's Right Wing.
Please go to that page alot more good info there...!!!!!
6Th http://www.sonofthesouth.net/leefoundation/Confederate_Flag.htm Good site interesting reads....
7TH The most Controvesial...it's in my humble opinion, goes wrong when people in power use that power to persuade people to think and believe their views are whats right for them and slanderously creates legislation thats not as FACT based as it needs to be and tries by majority use to demean the very exisitence of the Confederate Flag and what it's Heritage actually is,what it means to many..not just " HATE Groups".For this bill to pass is sad..." an enduring symbol of defiance"....your right I'll never giveup my Rights,my liberties or my Freedoms to a government elite or socio populist movement that seeks to remove GOD and GUNS from Americans, our culture,our History and our NATION..!!!!!
http://urj.org/socialaction/aboutus/reso/?syspage=article&item_id=1863&printable=1

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